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August 31, 2008

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Hmmm I began to learn out here in Berkeley-Oaklandistan that there were and remain Jews in America who were and are not Zionists; that Zionism did not equal Judaism even in the 1950s in New York. My Jewish mother-in-law grew up in Phoenix, AZ, and she is just not that interested in Israel, never has been. She did, however, work as an archivist for the Judah Magnus Museum here in Berkeley.

I lived a few blocks away from the museum in the mid-90s (my husband grew up in the neighborhood too) but never knew until I met a Palestinian-American activist from Berkeley the story of Judah Magnes. He lived in Palestine in the 30s and was trying to develop a shared state with Jews and Arabs. His vision of Israel/Palestine got quashed. My friend's father worked with him, and my friend remembers the improbable lush green of his grass lawn, a luxury unheard-of in arid Palestine.

Anyway. Not all West Coast/Southwest Jews are non-Zionists, but it seems more of them are less invested in knee-jerk Zionism. They care about being Jewish but don't see it as absolutely wrapped up in this vision of Israel. PErhaps this is why our local synagogue in Oakland (Kehilla, the Jewish Renewal temple) hosts a teach-in about the Nakba on Israel's birthday.

And perhaps this is why I could marry and remain happily married to a Jewish man despite the terrible political events since the beginning of our relationship. Things just aren't as compelling or toxic out here re: Israel/Palestine. Yes we have our toxic tempests in Berkeley/Oakland but the whole society isn't steeped in it the way you feel it is in the East.

There was a stuffy parochialism to that old order, and as Hollinger says, de-Christianizing included a lot of liberating trends in our culture, the Enlightenment, the questioning of religious myths, the rise of Hollywood.

Phil, the Enlightenment was dealt a crushing blow with WWI and essentially destroyed by WWII. I cannot imagine how you could conflate it with 20th century postwar liberalism. The Enlightenment did not simply mindlessly deconstruct tradition in favor of some new radical dogma.

The German Reform movement sought to reconcile Judaism with the ideals of moral universalism and intellectual freedom, not to de-Christianize their Protestant neighbors!

Another powerful post from Phil.

As I read it, I thought how difficult it would be for a non-Jew to broach this topic in America today. The situation may be improving slightly, but it would still be virtually impossible.

In Europe, the Muslim scholar Tariq Ramadan has gingerly tried to introduce it into the academic discourse, but his efforts has been strenuously opposed by the usual suspects.

This is the same Tariq Ramadan whom the Zionists blocked from coming to this country and accepting a post at Notre Dame.

What side am I on? I'm a Protestant-atheist (if there can be Catholic atheists and Muslim atheists, why not us?) non-secularist pro-Zionist isolationist paleolibertarian who prefers Pat Buchanan to mainstream political figures but dislikes his protectionism.

The Jewish Establishment is universalist for society and large and particularist for the Jews.

Antisemites are wont to point out this fact, but it seems hard to deny.

Where they go wrong is attributing these views to Jews as a whole.

A further point--the "social gospel" and Protestant liberals like Harry Emerson Fosdick probably did more to secularize America than did Jewish secularists. They came into prominence much later.

Phil:

Regarding my "shaming review" in The Nation of "The Israel Lobby": I'm really not sure what this means. Does it mean "shameful" or attributing shame to others? In other words, should I feel ashamed or Walt & Mearsheimer?

Dan Lazare

Weiss: “Jewish intellectuals sought to de-Christianize American culture. Hey I know; I was there…I'm a secular Jewish writer myself, and I know a lot of secularist Jews. There are still plenty of us. But the neocons are parochialisms…The pro-Israel feeling in Jewish life is so regnant that there has been a tendency among even secular Jewish intellectuals, for instance Glenn Greenwald and Daniel Lazare, not to identify neocons as Jewish parochialisms”

What Weiss is laying out here is the theory that Jewish activists, including Neocons, have been waging a social and cultural war against Christianity in America for decades, and I believe this to be true. (Note: they weren’t exactly swimming against the tide of history, given the secular trends, but they certainly accelerated them.) Also implicit in the theory is that parochial Jewish Zionists then essentially sought to convert Christian America to Zionism. I also believe this to be true. As I noted before, spiritualism abhors a vacuum, so after Jewish activists de-Christianized America, Jewish Zionist Neocons exploited the spiritual void on behalf of Zionism.

So, given that the de-Christianization of America resulted in Zionism filling our spiritual vacuum, how is this a good thing? It has been utterly disastrous for America, and, as we are seeing, also for the Jews, who are quite properly being blamed for the outcome. In fact, even if the spiritual vacuum hadn’t been filled by Zionism, it wouldn’t have been a good thing, given the destructive money-worshipping trends of America as well, which is another creed that post-Christian Neocons, Neoliberals, Wall Street Journal conservatives and other New World Order, pro-Iraq war types have encouraged fill America’s spiritual vacuum.

This isn’t a call for a return to the phony Christianity as practiced by pseudo-Christians like Bush and Hagee (I mean, how authentically Christian could they be given their premeditated collaboration with Jewish Zionist anti-Christian Neocons?) or the Christianity as practiced by other “Christians” who have fallen for the Zionist and materialist swindle. But we are certainly going to have to backtrack through authentic Christianity before organized religion and the State will ever melt away.

Phil and other left-liberals seem to believe we can get there by abandoning all social morality and screwing our way to enlightenment. How well has this worked out for Africa? That’s why left-liberals are in many ways more dangerous than Neocons. And the liberal interventionists are a combination of Neocons and left-liberals, so they provide no answers, either. And all of them were also collaborators with Neocons in their plan to de-Christianize America, and many also participated in the scheme to lie America into the Iraq war either willfully or through ignorance. How can any of these scheming bastards and useful idiots, or their movements, be trusted? They can’t.

Phil keeps misuing the terms parochial and secular, and this is muddying the waters. They are not opposites. In our language parochial is the opposite of universal, and secular is the opposite of religious.

The clash of outlooks that we've been discussing on this site is between parochialism and universalism. It has nothing to do with belief in a creator God (except when that creator God is believed to have had favorite creations). A religious person can be either universalist or particularist.

Phil's problem has come from his insistence on calling the Jewish lobby "religiously" motivated. This does draw attention to the similarites with the "religious Right" and so may be tactically useful, but it is ultimately misleading. The vast majority of people who choose to call themselves Jews today are not religious. I don't think Bill Kristol spends much time in private prayer. They are followers of an ideology. If we misidentify that ideology we're just postponing the real discussion we need to have.

If you say that a relion can be both universalistic and particular, and that parochialism may be seen as particular, then might we apply these to a definition o f secularism as well?

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