Most Israelis Agree: 'A Jewish State Has Turned Out to Be a Bad Idea for the Jews'

Below are a string of amazing and taboo ideas I have plucked from a paper by Israeli Ofra Yeshua-Lyth, formerly a journalist, that attacks Zionist "dogma" on demographic issues and the Jewish state, and that was presented at this summer's Haifa conference on the right of return and for a secular democratic state in Palestine: 

[In Israel a] deep nostalgic commitment to the preservation of "thousand years old Jewish existence" is... led by an educated, sophisticated and prosperous elite which considers the present mess the country is in a necessary unpleasantness which comes with the need, the privilege and the duty to preserve the sacred "Jewish Majority" in a political territorial entity. [Hey, that nostalgia is held by the Jewish elite in the U.S., too, and it's even more nostalgic for them 'cause most have only seen Jerusalem in coffee table books]

This commitment leads to a legal system that blatantly accords positive discrimination to Jews at the expense of non-Jews by the state of Israel...

...there is no way round the understanding, that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is basically a religious conflict. This, incidentally, is something Israeli secular Jews find very hard to accept. [Yes, we always hear it's a dispute over land]

The Israeli Jewish state in its present formation is doomed to be forever haunted by a self-afflicted demographic phobia. Jewish demographic inferiority is built into the Jewish Orthodox teaching....

The Two States Solution – which is non-viable anyway - is at most a program for the creation of two very unpleasant, mutually hostile, political entities. Presently, only one state exists in the area between the Jordan River and the Sea, in the area Jews call Israel and Arabs know as Palestine. Surely the most efficient, effective way to improve life for the millions who live in this area goes through reforming and correcting this state, opening it up to all the inhabitants under its military and sovereign control. [radical, huh; in the west we call this democracy]

Secular, liberal, Israeli Jews should be the first to be interested in a paradigm shift away from the present politics of confrontational religious ideology. [Americans too!]...

Unfortunately it seems almost impossible to even open for discussion the super-taboo of preserving a "Jewish State" at all cost. The "secularity" of Israeli Jews is peculiarly limited and stops short at important rituals which are part of the self-segregating Jewish mechanisms:

--Secular Israeli Jews are unanimously appalled by the idea that the Jewish "demographic majority" in Israel could be lost. [And American Jews are equally invested in this very religious claim, even as they mock and seek to isolate Christians who inject their mumbojumbo into American politics]

--Most secular Israeli Jews condemn mixed marriages. [Yeshua-Lyth isn't hysterical about assimilation]

...Leading cultural icons produce artistically worthy anti-nationalistic, anti-militaristic works but stay loyal to the basic Zionist ideology supporting a "Jewish State" and opposing the idea of secular democracy (e.g. ...novels by David Grossman and Amos Oz). [a wonderful piece of hypocrisy]..

Open discussions on the subject of "A State for All its Citizens", or of giving up the Zionist model in favor of a democratic and secular one is presently not an option in the Israeli Jewish society. The media and the political system are effectively blocking such ideas.... [and I thought it was just our media!]...

Tell an Israeli Jew that "a Jewish State has turned out to be a bad idea for the Jews" and chances are he or she would nod and accept this as a cliché... [Now ask the Palestinians the same question, hon]

One should also bear in mind that in the history of Zionism, the present mode of "Jewish State" with special privileges to Jews at the expense of others had not always been the only one. Very different models were considered feasible and worthy...

One political entity is the only true solution if one wishes to see peaceful civil existence between the Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea. The way to establish this One State must go through a deep reform of the present political entity controlling this area, which is the state of Israel. [And a deep reform of American Jewry, which is invested in the religiosity of a place most of them have never been to]...

Turning Israel into a secular and democratic state is a first step towards offering equal rights and civil equality to all those who live in the areas under Israeli rule. Correcting historical wrongs and returning rights of residency and ownership to the former inhabitants should take place within the new political entity that should belong to all its citizens.

This is the sort of paper that can blow a young Jew's mind, back here in the States. Pass it around! And speaking of paradigm shifts and non-shifts, here is today's piece on Livni in the New York Times where the reporter neutrally speaks of Israel's efforts to rid itself of its demographic demons so as "to preserve Israel as a Jewish democratic state." Is that an honorable discourse? Tell me why? Oh it's hard to make arrangements with yourself... (Thanks to Chris Varley for the tip.)

Comments

[Paul Easton, Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, Belly Of The Beast]

Is 'Jewishness' a religion or a nationality? Depends who you ask.

I propose we formalize the split between genuinely religious and humanistic Jews, and Zionist Jew Bastards.

[Richard Witty]

Your headline is misleading Phil.

The article is just a rant, not a summary of that comment.

The definition of Jewish is social and cultural, of which religion is a potential contributor.

Are you a Jew? Are you religious?

[Abe Bird]

I really don't know where from Ofra Yeshua-Lyth, "formerly a journalist" writes about the "new desire" of the Israelis? I know Israel very well and they are stand clear and strong with their desire for their national state Israel live aside in peace with the Arabs tribes around them and within them. Couple of people talking about "one state solution" is not representing the Jewish will.

The best political solution for the Israeli Arab conflict is a "two states solution". The "Two states solution" is the only possible solution to live with peace: The Arab state of Palestine is Jordan and the Jewish state of Palestine is Israel. The border in between is the Jordan River, Arabs will be the citizens of Palestinian Jordan and the Jews will be the citizens of Palestinian Israel. Arabs who will stay living in Israel will be Israel residents (but not citizens) and will vote for the Palestinian Parliament in Amman. The Jews who will live in Jordan will be Jordanian residence (but not citizens) and will vote for their Knesset in Jerusalem. In such a solution there will be no Arabs moving from one part of Palestine to the other part. Every one will continue to live on his personal soil and will continue his daily life (only minus his terror duties). The main change will be that for the first time of their short people hood the Arab Palestinian will have their Palestine they are dreaming for. Salam Aleikum!

[Abe Bird]

Richard Witty: Judaism, Jews and Jewish are a belief/religion and people hood/nationality combined. The 'Palestinian conflict' is whether the Palestinian Arabs accept the right of the Palestinian Jews to have their own national state in the land of Israel. The Arabs, who conquered the land for some only few decades in medieval time (which later proceeded by the Muslim Turks conquer until the British conquer) are now rejecting the Jews' right to their land in the name of their Allah and their "Dahr el-Islam". The basis of the conflict is then Islamic religious zealot extremism rejection of non-Muslims. Zionism is the Jews' political movement to establish the Jewish state. Nothing more. You should know that Israel can continue to live with out peace for more hundreds years as the Jewish state hood lives already for 120 years (from 1882).

[Paul Easton, Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, Belly Of The Beast]

Witty says 'The definition of Jewish is social and cultural, of which religion is a potential contributor'.

From a religious point of view the definition is love of Yahweh and Hisher teachings. From this point of view a Zionist can not be Jewish. Jews and Jew Bastards are disjoint sets.

[slaney black]

Abe Bird,

Thanks for the first honest and practical-minded case for the two state solution I've ever heard!

You lay the cynical barbarism of it refreshingly out in the open.

Mazeltov, sadiqi!

[Paul Easton, Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, Belly Of The Beast]

To dialog with the like of Selinger degrades this blog. People like Abe Birdie above then chip in with their two cents. Phil doesnt care because he doesnt read the comments.

[Abe Bird]

Paul Easton: What's your problem? Can't you read history and reality? If your feelings can't cope with facts don't attack the Jews but rather go to a Jewish psychiatric doctor to re-maintain your brain.
Are you really desperate that Phil doesn't read the comments? Take into account that he might change his political vision.

slaney black: Thank you (-: I think that it is very importand for people as you (and Easton) to study history from History books and not from Falsetinian Hysteria books. May I ask you why Palestine should be divided and re-divided between two peoples? Why not just one time division as made already in 1922? That solution is the best on table and won't hurt no Arab and no Jew. If you refuse the offer it means the continuation of the struggle which will lead to the same solution but through a war and more blood.

[Paul Easton, Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, Belly Of The Beast]

Abe,

Actually I went to *two* Jewish psychoanalysts but both were crazy.

Your idea that the real Palestinians are Palestinian Jews might make sense. Could be that Pals are more direct descendents of the ancient Jews than the offspring of the ones that left.

[Jim Haygood]

"The Arab state of Palestine is Jordan and the Jewish state of Palestine is Israel. The border in between is the Jordan River." -- Abe Bird

Oh, so now you're gonna expel 2.6 million Palestinians from the West Bank, too? From a zionist perspective, that's just a cattle drive, ain't it?

"In such a solution there will be no Arabs moving from one part of Palestine to the other part."

Great, sounds like the pass laws in apartheid-era South Africa. Nobody wants itinerant kaffirs roaming about at will.

I really can't quite figure out whether you're serious, or just writing a brutal parody of a zionist Jew who's racist to the frickin' core. Well done in either case -- this is some hardball wackoism. Was you in the Ku Klux Klan with your buddy Robert Byrd, way back when? How many N-words didja lynch?

[Richard Witty]

Jewish identity is independant from religion. Prior that was a unifying theme, analagous to the Islamic "there is no difference between church and state. Islam is a way of life."

That equation no longer applies to Judaism.

Jews are self-identified and identified by others.

In the words of my wife's uncle (a holocaust survivor). "I was a scientist. Hitler made me into a Jew." (And by that he meant the imposition, and the identity.)

[Richard Witty]

An important point was made to me by a friend of my wife's parents, whom we visited in Boston about a year ago.

He was married to a progressive theator director who knew many common actors from my spoken word directing days.

He said that he considered Israel as CONTRIBUTING enormously to the global dignity of the Jewish people, in the assertion that Jews were no longer second-class persecuted citizens. Jews had demonstrated their pluck and competence.

In many respects, the path that you had as a Harvard student and professional journalist was blazed by Zionism, not only by assertive assimilated Jews.

Its at least worthy of appreciation, if not adoption.

[higginslads]

"To dialog with the like of Selinger degrades this blog. People like Abe Birdie above then chip in with their two cents. Phil doesnt care because he doesnt read the comments."

Paul, Phil does read the comments. He has emailed me in regards to my comments, and he included you in an article on the blog not long ago. He was thanking everyone for the discussions in general, and he said something to the effect of "Paul is great!"