By Dismissing Walt & Mearsheimer, MSM Fosters Alienated Groundswell

The Washington Post has an attack on Congressman Jim Moran that is full of casual and dismissive invective, the suggestion that he's an antisemite who is afraid of the bogeyman, and is a captive of the Arab lobby (when of course there's no such thing as a pro-Israel one...). The writer takes the usual tack that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are not Jewish so what does the Israel lobby have to do with the Iraq war--once again ignoring the importance of ideas and braintrusts in American history. (What was the Peace Corps without a braintrust? What was Vietnam without the best and brightest?) The piece is remarkably similar to an attack in the LA Times on Walt and Mearsheimer that employs the same belittling, sniggering tone, in arguing that the two professors' work is "sinister."

The pieces suggest a pattern: the mainstream media are not able to take W&M's critique seriously; it simply makes them uncomfortable. The media cannot say: These are serious men who have spent a few years studying this and come to this troubling conclusion about the Israel interest in the Iraq invasion, based on a huge pile of evidence, including statements from Colin Powell and other high officials; let's have a discussion.

Compare that to the "oil cause" for Iraq. The other day when Alan Greenspan's book came out saying that the oil interests were behind the war, it had big headlines on Yahoo and elsewhere. Greenspan's argument strikes me as slapdash, unsupported (and on '60 Minutes' Greenspan came off as charming in his lack of sophistication). But at least it's getting a mainstream hearing.

The true danger here is that the conversation will happen outside the mainstream media. People are buying the book, it's creating a kind of groundswell. So we get two conversations, an official one in which these guys are delusionists and not to be heard out, and an alienated, unofficial one where The Israel Lobby Explains Everything. Neither reality is correct. We need to meld the conversations, and have a serious discussion.

Comments

[David Seaton]

"The true danger here is that the conversation will happen outside the mainstream media."
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I think that one very hopeful thing that distinguishes our Internet era is that meaningful conversations can take place "outside the mainstream media". A lot of people can talk to a lot of other people for very little money.

The mainstream media is not "our friend", it is certainly one of the prime suspects in leading the USA into Iraq and it has to treated like the "official press" of a dictatorship, which is read "between the lines" and never taken at face value.

It costs a lot of money to create the mass media and that money is spent to shape the opinions of the majority that don't have a lot of money in ways to make them behave in ways that are beneficial to the owners of said media. 2+2=4, n'est pas?

M&W's book is subversive in the best sense of the word. Subverting the "gatekeeper" function of the mainstream media is of vital importance in what is to be practically a labor of recreating democracy from mere DNA traces, like some political-science fiction version of Jurassic Park.

[Richard Witty]

Greenspan was right about the Iraqi war, as was Finkelstein, that the "Israel lobby" had very little to do with it, that it was predominately initiated to secure the supply-chain for oil. (That is a DIFFERENT statement than that the US was attempting to expropriate the oil specifically for its self or even US oil companies.)

I would add to that reasoning a personal or emotional rage at Saddam Hussein on the part of GW, to complete the "unfinished business" of the first Iraqi war, and as payback for alleged assasination attempts on his father.

[ed.]

AVERAGE JEWS HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR; JUDEOFASCISTS HAVE EVERYTHING TO FEAR

"The true danger here is that the conversation will happen outside the mainstream media."

The "true danger" to whom? Phil, I admire your work, but you need to stop worrying about the Judeofascists and start worrying about humanity.

The Judeofascists have basically conditioned nearly all Jews -- even open-minded liberal ones -- to think as a tribe no matter where the Judeofascist elite leads them. Hence, an honest debate beneficial to all of humanity about Judeofascist influence over Washington is framed as a potential "danger" to all Jews.

Your point seems to be that an undercurrent of anti-Semitism will swell into a tidal wave if the debate is suppressed by the MSM. But this is America. If a tidal wave forms, it's not going to take out average Jews, it's going to take out the Judeofascists at the top who helped lead America (and average Jews) into this mess: guys like Perle, Feith, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Wurmser, Kristol, Krauthammer, Tom Friedman et al. and to a lesser extent what blogger xymphora calls the Jewish Billionaire's Club -- rich racist diaspora Jews who are using their money to advance a quasi-fascist Jewish empire in Greater Israel by buying off Washington and largely controlling the MSM.

So would it be a bad thing if corrupt Judeofascists at the top in America are discredited and destroyed? Only to Jews who are reliant upon them and enabling them, and thus are culpable as collaborators anyway.

So please tell me: How is a massive American backlash against Judeofascism a bad thing? I would say any "danger" percolating out there in America is merely to the Judeofascists and their useful idiots, not to average Jews.

[Christopher Brown]

The WP is simply being dishonest. There are two rules for success in Washington: (1) never infringe on the interests of the Israel Lobby (2) never acknowledge or discuss those interests.

[MM]

I agree that the so-called "mainstream" media is or has become essentially a state institution by virtue of ideological homogeneity of its owners and the elites in general. Much like there are two state parties in that Democrat and Republican each are constricted by a set of foundational capitalist, imperialist ideology. There can be individual voices to the contrary, but they will never change the subject.

In other words, Mr. Weiss, please don't hold your breath for the media to get on the Lobby-Neocon-Iraq connection... or WTC 7 being "pulled" and not even worthy of mention in the 9/11 Commission report... Personally I am shocked, and will only even believe it when I see it, that W&M are going to be on the Colbert Report. But I will bet good money they won't be on TV much anywhere else, and people will be too busy talking about Syria to discuss 'the neo-con 25' and their destroying Iraq mostly for Zionist ends.

On a brighter note, serious discussion can, has, and will continue to happen over the internet where serious people are now going for information. If the media continues the blackout on the topics that are unsettling for power, it will lose marketshare, just as it has been starting to do. And I for one look forward to seeing how the Jewish billionaires (who fund the Lobby) choose between profits and this one-note ideology.

[scorpio]

Greenspan a NeoCon from way way back, so his little "blood for oil" gambit a classic mis-direction ploy

[Tom]

Back in 2002, after spending a few months working in the West Bank, I returned to New York, infuriated at the policies my government was supporting in Israel/Palestine.

I decided that I would not be shy, I would rant and rave, tell everybody what I thought. I wore my "I Love Palestine" T-shirt, I went into bars with a chip on my shoulder, expecting a fight.

Much to my surprise, as I started telling the strangers sitting beside me the things I saw at checkpoints, the way our tax dollars support racist policies, they would agree with me. At work, at cocktail parties, in dive bars, people understood the brutality of Israel's policies. Their sympathies were with the boy with the stone, not the man with the tank, no matter how often the New York Times or George Bush told them Israel was our ally. Perhaps this should not have surprised me, but it did.

What I realised, after the fifth person asked where they could get a Yassir Arafat t-shirt, is that although the American media and government are pro-Israeli, the American people are not. Part of this may be some sort of residual anti-semitism but mostly I think it is support for the underdog. After all, it is hard to root for the tank against a child with a stone.

The great dilemma for America's elites is that more and more of us don't believe our media or our government. The disparity between what we see to be the truth and what our leaders tell us will ultimately cost them. After all, the Soviet Union fell at least in part because no one believed the establishment's stories.

[Richard Witty]

"But this is America. If a tidal wave forms, it's not going to take out average Jews, it's going to take out the Judeofascists at the top who helped lead America "

America fostered the Ku Klux Klan, long-term restrictive immigration rights to protect its racial purity. America tolerated Jim Crow, failing to afford ALL men (including those without property, female humans, people of color) full civil rights.

In the 1930's and early 40's, MANY urged that the US has no business fighting fascism in Europe, and on the basis of popular movements spawned by heroes Charles Lindbergh and Henry Ford.

Until the 50's and early 60's Jews were subject to "legal" limitations on college entrance, numerous professions (including banking, law, defense, and others).

My mother described for me her first five years at public school in Worcester MA, in which she was routinely chased for being a Jew, a "Christ killer".

The second day that my son attended the local high school, he was assaulted by another student, who put a note on his desk saying "Hitler should have finished the job".

Fear is always exagerated and irrational. Its just that it is not unfounded, nor is America as confidently just as the naive imagine.

It is now. It has been largely in my and Phil's life (we spent a couple summers together as teenagers).

It hasn't been in my in-laws and wife's lives, survivors (and children of survivors)of real genocide.

Naivete is easy when speaking of others' lives.

[Samie]

I respect Phil on this, I'd say there are already two conversations taking place anyway. I no longer trust these journalist much less the papers they work for. I read the Times WP etc just to see what the next move is, the next lie smeared with bs they're going to force feed us.
Richard Witty said I dont understand jewish concious - my frustration is he and other's like him dont understand ours or anyone elses - they don't even try.
I don't know if there is any living with people like Elliot Abrhams who think all jews have to stand apart from the nations they live in unless they're in Israel. How can any gentile or muslim or anyone live along side this strain of thought? How can we trust that? Abrhams and his ilk want us to attack Iran. They want to stimmy any questions or checks and balances. He can speak like that but we can't question him on it. I think there will be a reckoning when enough have died, and the world cant stomach anymore.

[Samie]

Mr Witty, jews are not the only people who ever faced prejudice. Blacks, whites, Hispanics, catholics, protestants, Animists. Jews are not incapable of showing extreme prejudice any more than a muslim or a christian. History is littered with terrible tragedies and genocide's, it is happening right now as I type (real badly) so please mr Witty will you get off that soap box because the world is choking on it. My mother took a beating because she was different I just think her humiliation was any greater than your mothers of any one else's. No more, Mr Witty but sure as hell no less. This is where you have it all wrong.

[David Seaton]

I hardly ever disagree with Norman Finkelstein, who I admire tremendously, but on the causes of the invasion of Iraq I have to differ.

It is/was all about Israel, because Israel really is in a desperate situation. The entire flow of world affairs is going against Israel and the Israelis and the "friends of Israel" are pulling out all the stops trying to remake the Middle East in their favor while America is still the hegemon.

I am of the opinion that the destruction of Iraq as a functioning state -- its being broken up into separate, nonthreatening (for Israel,) mini-states, as is happening now -- was not an unforeseen eventuality, but was in fact one of the primary objectives of the war. For Israel, Kurdistan, bordering Iran and Turkey, dependent on USA/Israeli support for its existence is an enormous strategic asset.

The next step after the "shock and awe" was to move directly on a terrified Iran and provoke regime change in that country... Iran was *always* the objective, Iraq was a stepping stone to that objective.

What none of the perps suspected is how wrong it would all go, or that the Republican Guard would take off their uniforms and start effective guerrilla warfare.

I believe that the brains behind all of this were Ariel Sharon's. He is/was the only person in this story with enough strategic vision and Gordian Knot decisiveness to have come up with something as "game changing" as this debacle. We are looking at an evolution of such daring concepts as his crossing the Suez Canal in 1973 or his creating today's Palestinian Bantustans behind walls.

Unfortunately for the game plan, if not the world at large, Sharon's brain is now in never-never land and none of the clods left behind in Jerusalem or Washington can fill his shoes, much less his suits. There is no one left with enough of his evil moxie to sort this mess out.

"For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a nail."

[Richard Witty]

Samie,
My comments were in response to the assertion that "it couldn't happen in America", which is a ludicrous assertion.

Anyone that has studied history or experienced the ignorance that is possible here, knows that fascism is possible here, hatred of minorities, and Jews in particular.

In Europe, liberal assimilated Jews in Germany, Hungary, Poland, Russia, Greece, and elsewhere were still hunted, killed en masse, and before that considered "disloyal" and persecuted.

The majority of Jews take the position that "it happened to us, lets make sure it happens to NOONE ever again."

There is no good justification for oppressing others.

There is good justification for taking care of one's own.

The supposition of some all-powerful conspiracy by Jewish supporters of Israel, to get the US to invade Iraq, is a fantasy. Even Walt/Mearsheimer acknowledge that the "Israel lobby" is a voice merely, not a power.

The reasons to undertake a war are always multiple, and the protection of the oil supply chain is in America's "interest".

It is greater in our interest to significantly reduce our energy consumption, but no president since Carter has ever engaged that interest seriously, and he was condemned for suggesting it (among other things).

Not the Israel lobby, the oil lobby, the coal lobby, the nuclear lobby.

[Richard Witty]

There is an IMPORTANT political stand that I would have hoped that critical intellectuals would assert, that I would hope that Phil would assert.

That is that "the means are the ends", meaning that the way politics are conducted is the end sought, the measure of a progressive, a just society.

My sense of the optimum means is the process by which voices are listened to and respected, and that decisions and policies emerge by convincing in contrast to force.

That is the value of Walt/Mearsheimer's assertion, that rather than the force of the "Israel lobby", reason and persuasion should guide national and ethical policy (humane, not national).

That is also the value of the opposition to Walt/Mearsheimer's assertions, that persuasion should guide policy and debate, and NOT ideology, neo-fascist formulas of ethnic based dismissal, and that those that love Israel (including those that support it and those that simultaneiously love and criticize specific actions and policies) equally deserve the floor.

You can't assert that civil discussion is the desired goal, while acting to suppress those that differ.

[Richard Witty]

There is an IMPORTANT political stand that I would have hoped that critical intellectuals would assert, that I would hope that Phil would assert.

That is that "the means are the ends", meaning that the way politics are conducted is the end sought, the measure of a progressive, a just society.

My sense of the optimum means is the process by which voices are listened to and respected, and that decisions and policies emerge by convincing in contrast to force.

That is the value of Walt/Mearsheimer's assertion, that rather than the force of the "Israel lobby", reason and persuasion should guide national and ethical policy (humane, not national).

That is also the value of the opposition to Walt/Mearsheimer's assertions, that persuasion should guide policy and debate, and NOT ideology, neo-fascist formulas of ethnic based dismissal, and that those that love Israel (including those that support it and those that simultaneiously love and criticize specific actions and policies) equally deserve the floor.

You can't assert that civil discussion is the desired goal, while acting to suppress those that differ.

[ed.]

To “Richard Witty,”

“America fostered the Ku Klux Klan, long-term restrictive immigration rights to protect its racial purity. America tolerated Jim Crow, failing to afford ALL men (including those without property, female humans, people of color) full civil rights.”

You must really hate Americans.

But I love the way Judeofascists residing in America cite the country’s history of intolerance in order to encourage contemporary Jewish paranoia, while at the same time encouraging, excusing and enabling Israeli duplication of those same forms of intolerance in Greater Israel directed by Judeofascists towards Palestinians.

All of the examples of bigotry (sometimes murderous bigotry) in America’s past that you cited are the reality for Palestinians in Israel and the Occupied Territories to this day -- and the Judeofascists are not only telling Americans to look the other way, but forcing them to subsidize it. Yet American Judeofascists profess to be opposed to intolerance. The only intolerance they oppose is that directed at Judeofascists (which too often also blows back against average Jews).

You imply all Christians hate Jews and will always hate Jews because they are irrational and see them as “Christ-killers.” If you fear and loath Christians so much, how can you stand to live in America? Or maybe claiming that all Christians (and Muslims and Gentiles etc., etc.) are intrinsic Jew-haters throws them off guard and makes it easier to exploit, manipulate and persecute them and (in the case of gentile Americans) lie them into war.

My point is, often the reason there is intolerance directed at Jews is because they allow Judeofascists to commit atrocities (like lying their country’s into war) and then hide behind them. They accomplish this by telling average Jews “we’re all in this together.” True to their nature, Judeofascists then laugh at the gullibility of average Jews and move on to the next dastardly (and often highly profitable) deed under the auspices of “protecting the Jews.”

A Judeofascist kills a Palestinian family in the West Bank so he can take the family’s property? “Hey Jews, always remember: we’re all in this together. If we don’t circle the wagons, they’ll kill us all. Why just look at the world’s history of intolerance towards us. Hatred of Jews is everywhere and always has been. Don’t condemn me, I’m only protecting the Jews.”

It’s the oldest trick in the book, but gets successfully used against the uneducated masses again and again. Look at 9/11. America was attacked because of Washington’s Middle East policies? “Hey Americans, those evil Muslims are attacking us because they hate our freedom; let’s kill them all -- (snicker, snicker -- and get filthy rich in the process.)” (Richard Perle, anyone?) They don’t want Americans to examine Washington’s Middle East policies (many of which were engineered by Judeofascists) that led to the blowback. They want Americans to fixate on the “evil Muslims.” The Iraq war and the incubating war with Iran have accomplished just that.

If the Judeofascists really cared about “the Jews,” and their persecution, they would quite setting them up by hiding behind them after they pull their dastardly deeds and using “Israeli security” as a pretense in the project to institutionalize international fascism.

Did you ever wonder why, as one of the world’s oldest religions, there are so few Jews walking the earth? The Judeofascists say it is because the world is intrinsically hostile to the Jews; I say it is because the Jews have allowed themselves to be used, manipulated, and ultimately sacrificed to the megalomania of the Judeofascists. Given the Judeofascist track record of getting Jews killed, you’d think their schemes would be transparent by now. But then again, Judeofascist propaganda is probably the most sophisticated in the history of the world. It is employed against average Jews and average gentiles with nearly equal tenacity time and again. The Iraq war is just the latest example.

If Jews really want to put an end to anti-Semitism, they will put an end to the Judeofascists.

[Richard Witty]

A bit repititive Ed.

Like all rhetoric (therfore undependable to act on), it is a generalization.

Do you have a specific distinct meaning of a "judeofascist" distinguishing from a humane Jew?

[ed.]

"Do you have a specific distinct meaning of a "judeofascist" distinguishing from a humane Jew?"

Funny you should ask:

http://www.judeofascism.com/

[Richard Witty]

Pat Buchanon as a source of assessment of democracy?

[Alan]

Richard Witty obviously is another propagandized Zionist who hasn't spent enough time looking into those issues and especially the role that some Jewish elites played in the holocaust. In fact, while the common Jew was dying in concentration camps, the predominant concern of the Jewish Agency (in luxury hotels in Switzerland) and of the leadership of Zionist organizations in America (in their mansions) was to block all Jewish immigration out of Europe unless the final destination was Israel. When Rabbi Weissmandl was trying to save tens of thousands of poor Jewish souls by sending desperate letters to the Jewish Agency, he was receiving replies such as this one:

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"We are writing to remind you of the one factor of which you must never lose sight: that ultimately, the Allies will win the war. After their victory, territorial boundaries will be reshaped as they were after the First World War.

Then, the way will be clear for our purpose at this time, with the war drawing to a close, we must do everything in our power to change Eretz Yisroel to Medinat Yisrael and many steps have already been taken in this regard. Therefore, we must turn a deaf ear to the pleas and cries emanating from Eastern Europe. Remember this: all the allies have suffered many losses, and if we also do not offer human sacrifices, how can we gain the right to sit at the conference table when the territorial boundaries are reshaped?

Accordingly, it is foolhardy and brazen for us to negotiate in terms of money or supplies in exchange for Jewish lives. How dare we ask of the allied powers to barter money for lives while they are sustaining heavy casualties daily? So, insofar as the masses are concerned: RAK B'DAM TIHJE LANU HAAREZ, (Eretz Yisroel will be ours only by paying with blood), but as far as our immediate circle is concerned, ATEM TAJLU. The messenger bearing this letter will supply you with funds for this purpose."

Reply to the Jewish Rescue Committee in Czechoslovakia received from the Zionist Jewish Agency Executive Offices in Switzerland.

MIN HAMETZAR (p. 92) by Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl ZT"L

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Of course American Jewish Zionists know nothing of this history. If there was one great Jewish hero of the holocaust, it was Rabbi Weissmandl, yet nobody has ever heard of him. Why? Because the truth, if it ever came out, would make Jews realise what their leadership was doing at the greatest time of need. But a lot of this was known in Israel in the 1950's because too many survivors knew the role the Jewish Agency and other leading organizations and persons played.

Here is an old popular Jewish-Hungarian joke:

One night, a Jew is awakened by loud pounding on his door. "Who's there?" he asks in horror. "The Gestapo," comes the answer. "Thank God," he sighs, with relief. "For a moment I thought it was the Jewish Council."

Now, how is it possible that Ben Gurion makes this statement a few weeks after Kristallnacht:

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"If I knew it was possible to save all [Jewish] children of Germany by their transfer to England and only half of them by transferring them to Eretz-Yisrael, I would choose the latter----because we are faced not only with the accounting of these [Jewish] children but also with the historical accounting of the Jewish People."

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How is it possible that Weizmann, President of the World Zionist Organization and the Jewish Agency and first President of Israel makes this statement, among countless others:

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"Millions of Jews are dust on the wheels of history that will have to be blown away. They must accept their fate. We do not want them crowding into our Tel Aviv, turning it into a low-grade ghetto,"

[He is talking about the Old Generation. Zionists were obsessed with young, impressionable New Jews for Israel as the above Ben Gurion statement shows clearly].

Weizmann to the New Judea magazine in its Fall 1937 issue.

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How can this be explained? Here is Yossi Schwartz:

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"[...] This obsession with colonizing Palestine and overwhelming the Arabs led the Zionist movement to oppose any idea of rescuing the Jews who were facing extermination, because this would have impeded the ability to select and divert manpower to Palestine. From 1933 to 1935, the World Zionist Organization (WZO) turned down two thirds of all the German Jews who applied for immigration certificates.

The WZO did not only fail to seek any alternative for the Jews facing the Holocaust, but it also opposed all efforts aimed at finding refuge for the fleeing Jews.

As late as 1943, while the Jews of Europe were being exterminated in their millions, the US Congress proposed to set up a commission to merely "study" the problem. Rabbi Stephen Wise, who was the principle American spokesperson for Zionism, came to Washington to testify against the rescue bill because it would divert attention from the colonization of Palestine.

This is the same Rabbi Wise who, in 1938, in his capacity as leader of the American Jewish Congress, wrote a letter in which he opposed any change in US immigration laws which would enable Jews to find refuge in the USA. He stated: "It may interest you to know that some weeks ago the representatives of all the leading Jewish organizations met in conference. (...) It was decided that no Jewish organization would, at this time, sponsor a bill which would in any way alter the immigration laws."[2]

The entire Zionist establishment made its position absolutely clear in its response to a motion by 227 British Members of Parliament calling on the government to provide asylum in British territories for persecuted Jews. The meager undertaking which was prepared was as follows: "His Majesty's Government issued some hundreds of Mauritius and other immigration permits in favor of threatened Jewish families."[3]

But even this token measure was opposed by the Zionist leaders. At a Parliamentary meeting on January 27, 1943, when the next steps were being pursued by over one hundred Members of Parliament, a spokesperson for the Zionists announced that they opposed this motion because it did not contain preparations for the colonization of Palestine. This was a consistent stance.

Chaim Weizmann, the Zionist leader who had arranged the Balfour Declaration and was to become the first president of Israel, made this Zionist policy very explicit: "The hopes of Europe's six million Jews are centered on emigration. I was asked: 'Can you bring six million Jews to Palestine?' I replied, 'No.'... From the depths of the tragedy I want to save... young people [for Palestine]. The old ones will pass. They will bear their fate or they will not. They are dust, economic and moral dust in a cruel world... Only the branch of the young shall survive. They have to accept it."[4]

Yitzhak Gruenbaum, the chairperson of the committee set up by the Zionists, nominally to investigate the condition of European Jews, said: "When they come to us with two plans - the rescue of the masses of Jews in Europe or the redemption of the land - I vote, without a second thought, for the redemption of the land. The more said about the slaughter of our people, the greater the minimization of our efforts to strengthen and promote the Hebraisation of the land. If there would be a possibility today of buying packages of food with the money of the Karen Hayesod [United Jewish Appeal] to send it through Lisbon, would we do such a thing? No. And once again no!"[5]"

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I will have to finish this long post with Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl's 10 questions to the Zionists. He never received a reply:

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TEN QUESTIONS TO THE ZIONISTS

1. IS IT TRUE that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that:

a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and

b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and

c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily.

2. IS IT TRUE that the Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti.

3. IS IT TRUE that the answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments:

a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees.

b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war.

c) No ransom will be paid

4. IS IT TRUE that this response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber.

5. IS IT TRUE that in 1944, at the time of the Hungarian deportations, a similar offer was made, whereby all Hungarian Jewry could be saved.

6. IS IT TRUE that the same Zionist hierarchy again refused this offer (after the gas chambers had already taken a toll of millions).

7. IS IT TRUE that during the height of the killings in the war, 270 Members of the British Parliament proposed to evacuate 500,000 Jews from Europe, and resettle them in British colonies, as a part of diplomatic negotiations with Germany.

8. IS IT TRUE that this offer was rejected by the Zionist leaders with the observation "Only to Palestine!"

9. IS IT TRUE that the British government granted visas to 300 rabbis and their families to the Colony of Mauritius, with passage for the evacuees through Turkey. The "Jewish Agency" leaders sabotaged this plan with the observation that the plan was disloyal to Palestine, and the 300 rabbis and their families should be gassed.

10. IS IT TRUE that during the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weitzman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weitzman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe".

There are additional similar questions to be asked of these atheist degenerates known as "Jewish statesmen", but for the time being let them respond to the ten questions."

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/rabbi_quotes/weissmandl.cfm

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The facts speak for themselves. Yet useful idiots like Mr. Witty here or "tough dove" still think that the Zionist elites have the interest of Jews in mind, even though with their actions, once again, they endanger Jews everywhere. See also:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

- Lenni Brenner's '51 Documents' or 'Zionism in the Age of Dictators':

http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/
http://www.counterpunch.org/brenner1223.html

- Satmar Grand Rebbe Joel Teitelbaum:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/rabbi_quotes/teitelbaum.cfm

Satmar Grand Rebbe Joel Teitelbaum on "[w]hy the Zionists resemble an arsonist who sets a fire and then scrambles to assist the victims, who imagine the arsonist to be the savior." (From Vaoyel Moshe):

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/rabbi_quotes/vayoelmoshe1.cfm

- Yossi Schwarz:

http://www.marxist.com/israel-zionists-holocaust130603-7.htm

- Another holocaust hero nobody knows anything about, Rudolph Vrba:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Vrba#Vrba.27s_allegations

- The case of Rudolf Kastner and his trial:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Kastner

____________________________________________

I urge people, and especially Jews, to do their own research. There is a reason why most holocaust survivors in Israel live in dire poverty. It is because the Zionist elites never gave a damn about the common Jews and their suffering, to this day.

[Samie]

Mr Witty, I'd really like to know how congress come together to vote almost entirely unanimously on Israel issues? - One thing I do know is, it aint down to the Coal lobby.
I would really like the Lehman bros and the other blood suckers detangled from the federal reserve, that is our money not theirs and how the fed became in part control of jewish bankers is a travesty, not good for jews mr Witty, and as it turned, not good for us either.
Abrams is a jewish supremacist as are many of his ilk. let's start being honest shall we. I also think you should do a little research yourself in zionist / nazi history, Trotskyism, Bolshevism, communism I am sure Phil might say what a pity the brightest and best (of jewry) got mixed up in those movements (like neo conservatism) as well. You are being intransigent in your declaration of jewish innocence Vs gentile persecution. Germany certainly was a liberal tolerant society, take an unblinkered look at German history post WW I it's pretty telling.
Right now all focus is on Iran and their president Ahmedinajad being a holocaust denier, proof he wants to execute another holocaust against Israel? - Israel's president Peres is an Armenian holocaust denier - Not a word in US MSM.
American jewish groups are deniers, several of them involved in lobbying congress not to recognise the Armenian holocaust - Hardly a word in MSM.
Richard, please stop focussing on what might be and focus on what actually did happen and what actually is going to happen if we don't bring about change. Taking care of your own is a good thing, I don't disagree - but richard, you are my own, I am your own and the lobby are nothing but hucksters and criminals with a few lunatics thrown in for good measure.

Ed, I want you to know something, as angry as I am with the lobby, and it is a powerful lobby filled to the rim with conspiritual nutjobs beavering away against enemies real and imagined, Richard Witty is my fellow American. I despair at his world view, his tunnel vision. But so help me, if we were walking down a street and Richard Witty came under attack for what ever reason - his assailants have to take me on too.

[Alan]

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Michael_Dov_Weissmandl

http://www.weissmandl.org/TheUnheededCry/UnheededCryText.htm

http://www.weissmandl.org/ (Links on the left side don't work. Links on main body of page do.)

Read about this man. Then ask yourself why you never heard of him (or Rudolph Vrba), why there was never a movie made about him (say, by Spielberg.)

[Lord Skeletor]

ed in September 18, 2007 at 10:01 AM wrote:

"it's going to take out the Judeofascists"

Ed has a few of these evil creatures buried under his basement, and some parts of them in his fridge.

Right, Ed?

[Lord Skeletor]

Samie on September 18, 2007 at 03:16 PM wrote:

"But so help me, if we were walking down a street and Richard Witty came under attack for what ever reason - his assailants have to take me on too."

Great. Samie, you're only schizoid, not fully schizophrenic. Maybe Ed os too but forgot to take his meds?

[Samie]

To Lord Skeletor

No history of mental health problems here, Skeletor. Just pissed that America is hijacked and American kids are dying for no good reason - one of those kids was my nephew in 2004. Now go back to your zionist pals and let them know the mood is getting ugly out here. Your insults bounce off folk these days, your name calling and your snide remarks - it's all you guys have left. You'll run out of tread sooner or later.

[Oarwell]

David Seaton wrote (way above):

Subverting the "gatekeeper" function of the mainstream media is of vital importance in what is to be practically a labor of recreating democracy from mere DNA traces, like some political-science fiction version of Jurassic Park.

All I want to add is a heartfelt "wow." That, David, is a vivid analogy.

[David]

I agree that D. Seaton's post was right on. But the line that caught my ear was "The mainstream media is not 'our friend.'"

Speaking of which, today's M&W interview on KPCC radio in Los Angeles was just more anodyne NPR pablum, but the guest was Richard Cohen (Washington Post) and it did provide some interesting insights into his perspective on things.
http://www.scpr.org/programs/pattmorrison/

[David]

I agree that D. Seaton's post was right on. But the line that caught my ear was "The mainstream media is not 'our friend.'"

Speaking of which, today's M&W interview on KPCC radio in Los Angeles was just more anodyne NPR pablum, but the guest was Richard Cohen (Washington Post) and it did provide some interesting insights into his perspective on things--
http://www.scpr.org/programs/pattmorrison/

[Arie Brand]

"Greenspan was right about the Iraqi war, as was Finkelstein, that the "Israel lobby" had very little to do with it, that it was predominately initiated to secure the supply-chain for oil. (That is a DIFFERENT statement than that the US was attempting to expropriate the oil specifically for its self or even US oil companies.)"

Richard Witty, you can't hyack Finkelstein's name for the bit between brackets.

David, I answered the last post you directed to me.

[Ed.]

"it's going to take out the Judeofascists"

'Ed has a few of these evil creatures buried under his basement, and some parts of them in his fridge. Right, Ed?'

Getting nervous, are you Lord Skeleton, or just engaging in more Freudian suicidal fantasies?

There would be no need for me to do in person and illegally what History and God will take care of in their own sweet time. Remember, "creative destruction" is the favorite pass-time of suicidal, self-despising neocons and Judeofascists. Given their miserable, hate-filled world view, it's not too hard to figure out why.

The only question is, why don't they just go jump off a bridge somewhere? Oh, that's right -- like the true narcissistic sociopaths they are, they want to take the rest of us out with them.

[Arie Brand]

The last paragraph in Marc Fisher's Washington Post article was this:

"Why does he do it? I think it's because this is what he genuinely believes. But for those who believe money is the driving force in politics, there's this: Iin the 2004 election cycle, according to opensecrets.org, all--every penny--of the money the Jim Moran campaign received from foreign policy and defense-oriented PACs came from Arab and Muslim groups"

The last bit is a link on which I clicked and I found this:

Moran, Jim (D-VA)

2003-2004 PAC Contributions: $442,092
Based on data released by the FEC on Monday, May 16, 2005.

Agribusiness
$15,000

Communic/Electronics
$56,000

Construction
$11,500

Defense
$103,500

Energy/Nat Resource
$4,000

Finance/Insur/RealEst
$65,500

Health
$13,000

Lawyers & Lobbyists
$14,087

Transportation
$20,750

Misc Business
$22,120

Labor
$83,250

Ideology/Single-Issue
$33,385

Other
$0

Where are the "every penny" of all those Arab groups?

This looks like a barefaced lie.

[Richard Witty]

A proud Jew. A proud and humane Zionist.

There are more of us than can be dismissed by some fumigant term like Judeofascist.

There is no Jewish conspiracy, no Jewish control of Congress. Walt and Mearsheimer do not speak in those terms when you actually interview them. They speak in terms of seeking to enhance civil debate.

Not so much now. Now they've gotten personal about it, defensive, as I have in other respects.

Phil and I are both diaspora formerly suburban Jews from liberal families. We diverged.

Phil married a non-Jewish woman, staked his career on a heightened but simultaneously subdued yet provocative journalism. He's been radical in ways since I knew him at 14. We both were. He chose not to have children.

I on the other hand married a child of a holocaust survivor (that I met at a yoga center in India, after she had taught non-Jewish meditation classes in Israel and elsewhere, and was more or less accepted at it). I pursued an accounting career (a very unconventional accountant). My wife's family's REAL stories, made a period of history that would otherwise be very foreign and not understandable, very real to me.

I just finished reading the short memoirs of friends of my wife's parents, who similarly survived the holocaust in Hungary, similarly migrated to Israel, similarly left Israel due to the violence and pressures of living in a state under constant siege, and similarly had fairly radical originally anti-Zionist children.

While I can be sympathetic to the real experience of Palestinians, and am genuinely, especially at the rare times when I get to hear of them in human (non-rhetorical terms), I will ALWAYS sympathize with the experience of the Jewish people.

Its a good thing, not something that I will ever apologize for.

[Arie Brand]

Here are, according to the same link, Moran's top contributors for 2003-4:

JIM MORAN (D-VA)
Top Contributors
1 Mantech International $40,500
2 Paul Magliocchetti Assoc $28,500
3 Prologic Inc $25,234
4 Planning Systems Inc $24,000
5 Carlyle Group $23,000
6 Science Applications International Corp $21,000
7 BriarTek Inc $20,734
8 Boeing Co $20,500
8 Patton Boggs LLP $20,500
10 Ceratech $19,500
11 Northrop Grumman $18,000
12 Digital Systems Resources Inc $16,000
12 Mark Winkler Co $16,000
14 Lockheed Martin $13,250
15 General Dynamics $13,000
15 Unisphere $13,000
17 BAE Systems North America $12,000
17 Teledyne Technologies $12,000
19 CGI Group $11,500
20 Progeny Systems $11,000
20 Rae Inc $11,000

Question: Where are the Arabs?

[ed.]

Hey Richard Witty:

Stop muttering about how you personally know your host here it Mondoweiss to be a childless, self-hating Jew married to a goy, and how persecuted your various Jewish relatives have been over the years.

Do you want to do something really useful for your relatives and their offspring? Go tell them to hunt down every racist Zionist Judeofascist they can get their hands on and grind them into the dirt before they again get a lot of good Jews killed.

PS: I bet you have never complained about how "fumigant" the term 'Islamofascist' (popularized by Jewish neocons who no doubt see themselves as "proud, humane Zionists") likely is to the ears of Muslims. That would require seeing beyond the persecution of your own tribe and into the persecution of others. I doubt most self-absorbed Zionists obsessed with their own suffering are capable of such a feat.

[Richard Witty]

You confuse investment in my community with obsession.

Us liberal Zionists neither suicide nor abuse.

We do take offense where offense is given, and attempt to put it in perspective.

If it is genuinely threatening we respond. If it is insightful and useful to living a healthy and kind life, we take the advice.

If it is trivial or malevolent and can trust the rest of the world to commit to our community's health, then we ignore it.

If we aren't confident that others will stand by us, then we must defend.

When you urge that Israel be decent to its neighbors, and suggest a plausible way to be in fact, we listen.

When you urge that Israel be left to swing in the wind among consistently aggressive neighbors, we defend.

The significance of the term "fumigant" is that it kills both good and bad, good policies and bad ones.

A generalization does not distinguish between policies, actions, etc. It is NOT then a moral argument, but only a judgement of another.

I write about my history with Phil, mostly to attempt to appeal to him, but also to illustrate the factors that have practically affected my changes in attitude.

[David Seaton]

I think one of the triumphs of American democracy is that most Jewish people in the United States (certainly those that post here) really have no idea of antisemitism at all. Most of the discussion here is about Israel, but not really about the future social peace of the United States in relation to the knock-on effects and the blowback of the Iraq disaster and the disasters that will flow from it, due to the role of the Lobby in bringing them to pass.

The problem that the posters don't want to confront, in my opinion, is that the hardcore Likud/AIPAC are behaving in a way that awakens many ancient, negative ethnic stereotypes. Imagine if Condoleezza Rice were to be arrested selling crack, while eating watermelon, mulitply the effect by the number you first thought of and you'll have some idea of the damage all this could cost the American Jewish community if they don't rein in the Foxman/Dershowitz bunch.

[Richard Witty]

And, its up to moral people to consciously NOT invest in stereotypes, no matter what they are stimulated by.

I'm asked to hate Arabs by some that have had a great deal of interaction with Arabs in limited scope.

I reject that. I've had good and bad experiences with Arabs, Muslims, Palestinians. I know that Arabs, Muslims, Palestinians are human beings and ALWAYS endeavor to treat them as such.

And, the way that I do that is to respect them, but question their assumptions and conclusions, just as I question my own.

[Boring]

We get it Richard. You rock. Now get a life.

[Richard Witty]

An academic one, or a journalistic one?

Or perhaps a consultant?

[Anonymous]

No Witty, you are a born catwalk model. You see yourself as a lively lass, fat in humanism, but your bones are showing under your dress and we perceive your mind choking in anorexic delusion.

[Richard Witty]

Poetic. Anonymously.